Is being non-vegan moral?

Crystal

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Simple question. Is consuming dairy/meat moral considering the processes we have to go through to get these things? I have my own arguments for this, but I would like to hear others opinions first.
 

Fergus

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Well, I guess, it depends how "ethical" the meat/dairy is sourced. Because particularly in the Amazon, one of the reasons for deforestation is cattle ranching.
 

Jack Atlas

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As someone who regularly eats meat and understands what the dietary needs of a human are, I don't see any ethical correlation to this? Humans are typically omnivores, which means they should be eating both meats and plant-based foods. If you care so much about an animal's feelings to not consume meat, that's fine by me, and I'll leave you alone on that subject, but I personally could care less, especially since they are usually necessary in the human diet in order to not suffer from malnutrition.

As for dairy products, I can kind of understand the ethical correlation, because I sort of don't really get why people need to drink other species' milk or use it for other products, but I do enjoy having cheese on my pizza, on my sandwich, or whatever else cheese goes well with.

tl;dr, if your meal doesn't have meat in it, you're doing it wrong
 

Crystal

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Alright, now it's time for me to actually place my two cents in this thread.
Well, I guess, it depends how "ethical" the meat/dairy is sourced. Because particularly in the Amazon, one of the reasons for deforestation is cattle ranching.
Personally, I view any consumption of meat/dairy as immoral and whether or not it's free range doesn't mean that it's moral.
As someone who regularly eats meat and understands what the dietary needs of a human are, I don't see any ethical correlation to this? Humans are typically omnivores, which means they should be eating both meats and plant-based foods. If you care so much about an animal's feelings to not consume meat, that's fine by me, and I'll leave you alone on that subject, but I personally could care less, especially since they are usually necessary in the human diet in order to not suffer from malnutrition.

As for dairy products, I can kind of understand the ethical correlation, because I sort of don't really get why people need to drink other species' milk or use it for other products, but I do enjoy having cheese on my pizza, on my sandwich, or whatever else cheese goes well with.

tl;dr, if your meal doesn't have meat in it, you're doing it wrong
Meat is not needed in human diets. It can be easily supplemented by plants/other vegan options.

I want to see some good counterpoints, not just appeal to nature fallacy. C'mon guys.
 

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Meat is not needed in human diets. It can be easily supplemented by plants/other vegan options.
Not necessarily, most vegan options aren't exactly good replacements to meats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that most if not all meat products contain a protein that provides 18 or so essential amino acids that plant-based/vegan substitutes can't always provide. Sure, some vegan options do contain protein, but can't provide all 18 of those amino acids, unless you seriously diversify your food intake, which in my opinion is way too much of a hassle.
I want to see some good counterpoints, not just appeal to nature fallacy. C'mon guys.
My "nature fallacy" is what's been proven by nutritional experts as the dietary needs of a human. I simply was stating facts, which I'm pretty sure are good counterpoints.

Also I don't think you answered my first point, which is there doesn't seem to be any ethical correlation to eating meat. At least in my opinion.
 

Crystal

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Not necessarily, most vegan options aren't exactly good replacements to meats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that most if not all meat products contain a protein that provides 18 or so essential amino acids that plant-based/vegan substitutes can't always provide.
Supplements provide just as much nutrients as meat, thus making them perfectly good alternatives to meat consumption that work.
My "nature fallacy" is what's been proven by nutritional experts as the dietary needs of a human. I simply was stating facts, which I'm pretty sure are good counterpoints.
No your nature fallacy is pointing out evolutionary traits. Which, we only obtained those traits out of necessity. We do not need to consume meat anymore, as we have plenty of alternatives to consume them.
Also I don't think you answered my first point, which is there doesn't seem to be any ethical correlation to eating meat. At least in my opinion.
Can you name a trait present or absent in animals that justifies treating them the way we do? The way we do being consumption/exploitation.