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Islam (1 viewer)

What is your opinion of Islam, and how much does it influence extremism?

  • Islam is a peaceful religion, and extremism in the name of Islam is not true Islam.

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • Islam is mostly peaceful, but is occasionally misinterpreted into a more fundamentalist belief.

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Islam is somewhat peaceful, but does contain verses etc. that influence and promote extremism.

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • Islam is mostly violent, and plays a large part in extremism and terrorism in the name of Islam.

    Votes: 5 27.8%
  • Islam is violent, and extremists committing terrorist attacks are in complete accordance of Islam.

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • Total voters
    18

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True Hyper Sawk

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What is your opinion of Islam, and how much influence does it have on Islamic extremism?

Things to keep in mind
1. I am not talking about Muslims. Islam is a religion. Muslims are the followers of that religion. Muslims are individual people and have varying beliefs and degrees of religiosity. Just because someone suggests that Islam is a violent religion, doesn't mean they are suggesting that all Muslims are violent. Please try not to conflate the two, and please try and keep Muslims out of this debate. As I said, they are the people that follow the religion and vary as to how much of their religion they believe and follow, depending on the person. They have a limited amount of relevance to this debate.
2. Please try to keep it civil. Many people feel strongly about this subject, and people on both sides regularly lose their shit over it. Again, keep it as civil as possible.


Anyway, that's about it. As people comment, I will post my thoughts as well, but as this is the OP I'm going to keep it unbiased for now. Happy debating ;)
 
Awesome thread! Well really, your option: "Islam is mostly violent, and plays a large part in extremism and terrorize in the name of Islam" sums it up pretty darn well for me. While Muslims and the religion of Islam may be two separate things, they often times go together and are part of the culture of nearly every exteremist and terrorist out there.
 
Awesome thread! Well really, your option: "Islam is mostly violent, and plays a large part in extremism and terrorize in the name of Islam" sums it up pretty darn well for me. While Muslims and the religion of Islam may be two separate things, they often times go together and are part of the culture of nearly every exteremist and terrorist out there.
In all honestly you're exactly right. Something like 99% of all extremists and terrorists currently alive belong to Islam. Apologists will bring up the modern-day KKK and Westboro Baptist Church, the truth is is that these organisations have about 10,000 members combined, with maybe a few thousand more sharing their views. That's nothing compared to the amount of Muslims with radical or extremist beliefs, or even jihadists.
 
I don't think the religion has mostly harmful intents. It mostly says to fire back at infidels that have fired at you unlike many people interpret it as just killing all the infidels. I can't stand seeing people sharing out verses of the Quran that they revised to make them look worse than they appear to make the religion look bad. I don't think Islam is really a "religion of peace" as it does request equal damage done to others that they have done to you but then again, it doesn't seem like any religion can be defined as one entirely of peace. Unfortunately a few radicals misinterpret this as actually killing the infidels wherever they may be and this radicalism has somehow spread a bit, but only to a very tiny percentage of the Muslim world. I think if Islam were truly based off violence, the number of jihadists would be much higher but I also think much less people would want to be part of that religion if they knew a main aspect was violence and killing non-Muslims.
 
I don't think the religion has mostly harmful intents. It mostly says to fire back at infidels that have fired at you unlike many people interpret it as just killing all the infidels. I can't stand seeing people sharing out verses of the Quran that they revised to make them look worse than they appear to make the religion look bad. I don't think Islam is really a "religion of peace" as it does request equal damage done to others that they have done to you but then again, it doesn't seem like any religion can be defined as one entirely of peace.
You see, the problem with your analogy is that Muhammad and his first followers were never killed for following Muhammad or even discriminated against for that matter. It's quite the opposite. Muhammad was the one who punished for not following him, he was the one who violently spread his religion. Throughout Islam's history it has always been Islam that attacked Christian, Hindu and Buddhist countries to spread their religion to them. Look at the Middle East. Before Islam invaded it, it was Christian. The area that is modern day Pakistan and the whole of India was Hindu etc. before Islam invaded it, and Afghanistan was Buddhist iirc before Islam invaded it. Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan were all either Buddhist, Christian or tribal/traditional before Islam as well. Islam has never been a victim of infidels or apostates, it's been the other way around.


Unfortunately a few radicals misinterpret this as actually killing the infidels wherever they may be and this radicalism has somehow spread a bit, but only to a very tiny percentage of the Muslim world. I think if Islam were truly based off violence, the number of jihadists would be much higher but I also think much less people would want to be part of that religion if they knew a main aspect was violence and killing non-Muslims.

Unfortunately that's misinformation parroted by the media. Majorities of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support the death penalty for leaving Islam
 

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haven't replied to this thread since now, but i thought better late than never let me come out and explain the truth; as i've grown up as a muslim.

generally, islam isn't meant to be violent; if you read the Quaran (which follows Islam) in english translated (it's written in arabic) it says a lot of positive things; how to stay clean, be polite etc. sadly, a lot of people went to teach the wrong ways to islam, for example "if you kill someone, you go to heaven" which obviously is wrong, and you'll go to hell. Islam isn't violent but the way people talk about it make it violent.
 
i actually wrote that post, i just accidently clicked anonymous

haven't replied to this thread since now, but i thought better late than never let me come out and explain the truth; as i've grown up as a muslim.

generally, islam isn't meant to be violent; if you read the Quaran (which follows Islam) in english translated (it's written in arabic) it says a lot of positive things; how to stay clean, be polite etc. sadly, a lot of people went to teach the wrong ways to islam, for example "if you kill someone, you go to heaven" which obviously is wrong, and you'll go to hell. Islam isn't violent but the way people talk about it make it violent.
 
First of all, guys you can't say something bad before seeing it in the eyes. If you see it in by your eyes, then you can say what you want. I'm a muslim a guy, and I like the peace because I like the respect. Let's being with this, on every where on this world, people can be bad and can be nice right? for example, like smile everyday to the people, that's a positive way. You guys think that Muslims are violent right? why is that? isn't there any other people in the world are violent? you are just blaming muslims for not seeing it in the eye. Muslims is not violent that's first thing, in the Quran it's written that Islam is simple and not complex. I can agree with you that not every Muslim is perfect, there are muslims are bad, which do bad things like kill, and such like every person in this world for example like a gangster in the USA, and there is Muslims are good, which there is a lot of them. I will tell you a story that my father told me about the last prophet Mohammed. Before his death he told the people that he wanted to share the information so the people won't go in the bad way ever. a guy said "Quran is enough for us". Actually " Quran is enough but there is a lot of meaning that the person can't realise it expect the god and prophet Mohammed wanted to make this easy for them but they refused".

And thanks guys, I just don't want that you guys have bad information about Muslims. Like I said, other people can be violent more than muslims and i don't see muslims are violent, you just think in a bad way, and it depends person to person, some muslims are good and some not.
 
First of all, guys you can't say something bad before seeing it in the eyes. If you see it in by your eyes, then you can say what you want. I'm a muslim a guy, and I like the peace because I like the respect. Let's being with this, on every where on this world, people can be bad and can be nice right? for example, like smile everyday to the people, that's a positive way. You guys think that Muslims are violent right? why is that? isn't there any other people in the world are violent? you are just blaming muslims for not seeing it in the eye. Muslims is not violent that's first thing, in the Quran it's written that Islam is simple and not complex. I can agree with you that not every Muslim is perfect, there are muslims are bad, which do bad things like kill, and such like every person in this world for example like a gangster in the USA, and there is Muslims are good, which there is a lot of them. I will tell you a story that my father told me about the last prophet Mohammed. Before his death he told the people that he wanted to share the information so the people won't go in the bad way ever. a guy said "Quran is enough for us". Actually " Quran is enough but there is a lot of meaning that the person can't realise it expect the god and prophet Mohammed wanted to make this easy for them but they refused".

And thanks guys, I just don't want that you guys have bad information about Muslims. Like I said, other people can be violent more than muslims and i don't see muslims are violent, you just think in a bad way, and it depends person to person, some muslims are good and some not.

I definitley agree with this post 100%! But then again this is another sterotypical use; just like how all Americans are consdiered fat. So if someone on the news sees a Muslim doing a bad thing then people consider all muslims like that. The Quaran is the true meaning of Islam, and it's not violent. :)

Oh and that 88% of people in Egypt supporting death penalty is clearly false, I'm from Egypt myself and it's completely false.
 
i actually wrote that post, i just accidently clicked anonymous

haven't replied to this thread since now, but i thought better late than never let me come out and explain the truth; as i've grown up as a muslim.

generally, islam isn't meant to be violent; if you read the Quaran (which follows Islam) in english translated (it's written in arabic) it says a lot of positive things; how to stay clean, be polite etc. sadly, a lot of people went to teach the wrong ways to islam, for example "if you kill someone, you go to heaven" which obviously is wrong, and you'll go to hell. Islam isn't violent but the way people talk about it make it violent.

First off, as I said in the OP different Muslims have different degrees of religiosity so not all Muslims are going to believe the same thing. You may have less religious parents so you were brought up with a more moderate and liberal version of Islam. As I've said I'm not talking about Muslims so individual Muslims giving their anecdotes isn't the most valid argument.

Second off, it's obviously going to have some positive things. Nazism has some positive things, I'm sure we can all agree it's overall not a good thing (before you get mad, I'm not comparing Islam to Nazism, it's an analogy). Cherry picking doesn't absolve the negative things. And yes, I'm sure that extremists believe at least some false things about Islam. That doesn't change the fact their ideology is in fact also legitimate Islam.

First of all, guys you can't say something bad before seeing it in the eyes. If you see it in by your eyes, then you can say what you want. I'm a muslim a guy, and I like the peace because I like the respect. Let's being with this, on every where on this world, people can be bad and can be nice right? for example, like smile everyday to the people, that's a positive way. You guys think that Muslims are violent right? why is that? isn't there any other people in the world are violent? you are just blaming muslims for not seeing it in the eye. Muslims is not violent that's first thing, in the Quran it's written that Islam is simple and not complex. I can agree with you that not every Muslim is perfect, there are muslims are bad, which do bad things like kill, and such like every person in this world for example like a gangster in the USA, and there is Muslims are good, which there is a lot of them. I will tell you a story that my father told me about the last prophet Mohammed. Before his death he told the people that he wanted to share the information so the people won't go in the bad way ever. a guy said "Quran is enough for us". Actually " Quran is enough but there is a lot of meaning that the person can't realise it expect the god and prophet Mohammed wanted to make this easy for them but they refused".

And thanks guys, I just don't want that you guys have bad information about Muslims. Like I said, other people can be violent more than muslims and i don't see muslims are violent, you just think in a bad way, and it depends person to person, some muslims are good and some not.

First of all, your entire argument is a massive strawman.

"1. I am not talking about Muslims. Islam is a religion. Muslims are the followers of that religion. Muslims are individual people and have varying beliefs and degrees of religiosity. Just because someone suggests that Islam is a violent religion, doesn't mean they are suggesting that all Muslims are violent. Please try not to conflate the two, and please try and keep Muslims out of this debate. As I said, they are the people that follow the religion and vary as to how much of their religion they believe and follow, depending on the person. They have a limited amount of relevance to this debate."

If you weren't being blatantly dishonest (some people would say you just had a knee-jerk reaction and didn't read the OP, but I know better than that), you wouldn't make this strawman. That alone could invalidate your entire argument but I'll debunk it anyway.

"First of all, guys you can't say something bad before seeing it in the eyes. If you see it in by your eyes, then you can say what you want." Have you ever seen Nazism in the flesh? No? Then how can you say it's bad? This stupid argument can justify pretty much every awful ideology out there.

"I'm a muslim a guy, and I like the peace because I like the respect." Just because you are a Muslim and like peace, doesn't mean the entire religion is peaceful. All it means is that you're a Muslim who also happens to not be an absolute nutcase.

"Let's being with this, on every where on this world, people can be bad and can be nice right? for example, like smile everyday to the people, that's a positive way." Yes, I never said anything contradicting this.

"You guys think that Muslims are violent right? why is that? isn't there any other people in the world are violent?" No, nobody in this thread including me ever suggested this you lying cretin. I'm not going to lie, it really pisses me off when people do this, you apologists are notorious for it. You claim everyone hates Muslims and is saying they are all violent animals who have to be locked in a cage when nobody has ever suggested this.

"you are just blaming muslims for not seeing it in the eye." No, I don't blame Muslims as a community for anything. I blame Islam for a lot of things though.

"and there is Muslims are good, which there is a lot of them." I never said anything that disagrees with this.

"I will tell you a story that my father told me about the last prophet Mohammed. Before his death he told the people that he wanted to share the information so the people won't go in the bad way ever. a guy said "Quran is enough for us". Actually " Quran is enough but there is a lot of meaning that the person can't realise it expect the god and prophet Mohammed wanted to make this easy for them but they refused"" Your dad knows this how?

"Like I said, other people can be violent more than muslims and i don't see muslims are violent, you just think in a bad way, and it depends person to person, some muslims are good and some not." Again, I never said the opposite. I don't see Muslims as violent either, I see Islam as an ideology as violent.

"So if someone on the news sees a Muslim doing a bad thing then people consider all muslims like that" No. You wouldn't believe how many people around me are so apologistic towards Islam, they are worse than this anonymous guy.


"Oh and that 88% of people in Egypt supporting death penalty is clearly false, I'm from Egypt myself and it's completely false." This actually doesn't prove anything. It's like me saying "That 50% of British people are Christians statistic is clearly false, I am an atheist and most people around me that I know of don't care for god or don't believe in god either" It doesn't make the statistic wrong, it means I live in an area or in a generation that has a certain viewpoint that is different from the general one. 88% isn't 100%, that leaves 12% who don't, and you may have lived in an area that is generally more liberal than the rest of the country. Or, you may never have had to deal with that kind of thing so you never asked anybody about it, and your parents happened to be more liberal than most people so didn't teach you that people should die for leaving Islam. Or a combination of both. Or something else, I will be honest and say I can't 100% for certain prove the statistic either true or false.

Give Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth a read, it's actually really interesting and might enlighten you. And don't just dismiss it as propaganda, actually read it with an open mind please.
 

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True Hyper Sawk

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I've deleted a couple of very insensitive posts on this thread as I feel they don't serve the purpose well enough for the topic seen here, despite the fact that they were technically on-topic. Now back to the post...

Ok so first of all, take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert on religion at all (though I can clearly tell some people here are trying very hard to look like one...), but I can say that extremists of the religion of Islam do cause some problems (i.e ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc.) That's not to say however that most Islamic countries/people are violent because of that, and pretty much everyone I know that does study Islam can tell me that it's not as bad as most people outside of it think. Again, I can't 100% confirm because frankly I can't care enough to really debate such a touchy subject such as religion, but I just thought I'd throw my two cents though. However, one comment did catch my eye though:
Give Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth a read, it's actually really interesting and might enlighten you. And don't just dismiss it as propaganda, actually read it with an open mind please.
With all due respect, what in the actual fuck is that? That is tabloid trash and nothing but a bunch of nonsense. "Don't dismiss it as propaganda" LMAO that's exactly what that joke of a page is, period. Literally all that is is some biased dimwits saying how much he dislikes Islam and providing stretched examples on how the religion is invalid. While it is true that EXREMISTS are causing these problems, it's just trying to stretch the truth about Islam being a "violent religion".
 
but I can say that extremists of the religion of Islam do cause some problems
No, they don't cause some problems, they cause the majority of terrorism in the world, obviously especially in the Middle East. The biggest victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims, so in a way I'm actually supporting the Muslims who are injured and killed by the nutters by calling out their medieval ideology, not to mention all of the Muslim women who are oppressed by this religion I am supporting.

That's not to say however that most Islamic countries/people are violent because of that
Of course you have to strawman my argument like Anonytard did. I didn't say that, I said I think the religion is. Not the people. The countries could be considered violent if you consider all of the violence between different ISLAMIC factions that goes on in them. I've never said anything of the sort about the people though, don't try and say I have. You can go back and look, as far back as the OP you'll see that I clarify that this debate isn't about Muslims as people, and I go on to defend that point multiple times.

With all due respect, what in the actual fuck is that? That is tabloid trash and nothing but a bunch of nonsense
It's not a tabloid though, if you actually bother to look at it you'll see that it uses many, many verses from the Islamic holy books to back up what it's saying. It doesn't use explosive or sensationalist words or sentences anywhere. Also, what you're describing isn't a tabloid.
 
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Did the person who wrote that thing actually knew Arabic? There are many people in the world that say that if you kill then you will go to heaven. Unfortunately that's how terrorism is pretty much caused. With all that, the Quaran is written in Arabic so a proper sheikh (Even my primary school teacher was very famous sheikh) can translate it.
 
Again, I'm no expert in religion so I can't really say for certain, and don't take my words or anyone's here as gospel. Draw your own conclusions based on what's said here and go from there. :p
 
Did the person who wrote that thing actually knew Arabic? There are many people in the world that say that if you kill then you will go to heaven. Unfortunately that's how terrorism is pretty much caused. With all that, the Quaran is written in Arabic so a proper sheikh (Even my primary school teacher was very famous sheikh) can translate it.
lol Nice excuse, yes it's all a translation error, of course, only a figure of authority is allowed to translate it "correctly". No how about you actually try and refute mine and their points instead of always coming up with excuses and strawmans? I don't mean to ad hominem but you guys are some of the most dishonest and unreasonably apologetic dickwads out there, how about instead of being blind sla- I mean followers of a cu- I mean religion you actually research and come up with legitimate fucking arguments and look at things objectively? This is one of the big reasons I don't like religion in general.
 
lol Nice excuse, yes it's all a translation error, of course, only a figure of authority is allowed to translate it "correctly". No how about you actually try and refute mine and their points instead of always coming up with excuses and strawmans? I don't mean to ad hominem but you guys are some of the most dishonest and unreasonably apologetic fuckheads out there.

My point was that there are a lot of people who teach people the 'wrong' ways of Islam. Therefore those learning people with think that harm is good. There's a lot of this happening.

Anyways, shouldn't really call us fuckheads but whatever lol. I'm done with this.
 
My point was that there are a lot of people who teach people the 'wrong' ways of Islam. Therefore those learning people with think that harm is good. There's a lot of this happening.

Anyways, shouldn't really call us fuckheads but whatever lol. I'm done with this.
Who are you to say it's wrong though? Just because they don't agree with your interpretation? They would say the exact same about you, so why are you right and them wrong?

Wasn't even directed at you because you seem a bit more reasonable but whatever, gotta stick with the herd right?
 
Who are you to say it's wrong though? Just because they don't agree with your interpretation? They would say the exact same about you, so why are you right and them wrong?

Wasn't even directed at you because you seem a bit more reasonable but whatever, gotta stick with the herd right?

Not saying they are wrong, but this is likely to be the case.
 
Not saying they are wrong, but this is likely to be the case.
But again how do you know? Why do you think your version is right? This is the exact same argument Jihadists and terrorists would use against moderates like you. Even further, how do you know your religion is the right one and not Christianity, or Judaism for that matter, or Hinduism, or Greek Mythology? It's these kinds of nonsensical arguments that plays a large role in why I reject all religion as nonsense made up by people thousands of years ago that had not even 1% of the knowledge we have today (in this and related fields), and in some cases deluded people who wanted to control the entire world.
 

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